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Post by Paranoid on Feb 15, 2007 21:20:47 GMT -5
This may do a bit to controversial, so Admins can close it if u don't like this topic.
I think religion was just made up by some guys who thought they could help the world by putting the "fear of god" into people and use it make them be good. Although, now because of it, we have wars, racism, torture and killing.
I dont like to believe in lies and false deities, but it seems to have left me without morals, not knowing what values to believe in, and I dont care about the world and I hate the world. Some would call this "goth".
Some believe it isnt real, but say it helps them, I guess thats ok if u need it to give u help and you through hard times, but it's not for me. I just can't trust a lie.
your opinions, I know a lot of you believe in religion, so debate...don't get out of control...respect beliefs/opinions.
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Post by RELLIK on Feb 21, 2007 9:42:22 GMT -5
religion is an ecuse. its something peopple use cuz they dont have the strength or faith in themself. only religion that should be around is bhuddism. hristianity and catholisism is to make humans feel better and on "top" of other animals etc. then they say theyre better thasn other people. the cross is tha last thing id want on my grave. its is a propagandic symbol of something "holy". n then you can get "saved". that means i can kill 99999999 people n ill be forgivin if i confess. hell cannot exist without heaven.
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Post by Reaver on Mar 2, 2007 2:02:32 GMT -5
You forgot Pagan, Rellik...
I belive that there is something but I'm not placing my bets on just 1 religions god... <.<
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Post by Nightmare on Feb 19, 2008 9:09:52 GMT -5
Religion.... This is one of those topics I can rant about for several hours... But I'll try not to make it that long, since I wanna sleep sometime tonight. <.<;
Religion is alot of things. I've seen Religion used in a few different ways. One way, was to educate. Both in science, and in morality. People use the "If you be good, God will reward you, if you be bad, God will punish you" thing to make people be good. And people, back in a simpler time, simply explained scientific things to people by saying it's "God's will" over the scientific explination, simply because it was easier. Another way I've seen it used, is to induce fear. Too many people that get too into this Religion stuff use threats of God to scare people into thinking the way they do, and believing what they do. But anyways, let's go into some more detail here...
In a sense, I believe Religion is a good thing. Nearly all major religions teach good morals, such as kindness, acceptance, respect, and offer a good sense of justice. Though I think these things are good, it also has it's downsides. Is this all Religion is good for? Instead of parents teaching children how to be good people, through example, and teaching them to do these things because it's the right thing to do, they make God teach them for them? They use God as a tool to scare their kids into being good? I dunno, something about doesn't seem right to me...
Using Religion to educate.... The only examples you see of this nowdays is people preaching to one and other... An interesting fact; According to the Jewish religion, you can't drink milk and eat meat in the same meal. Pretty silly huh? But they say you can't because it's against God's will. Now where did they get that idea? Well. Back then, people didn't refrigerate milk, or meat, or anything like that. They stored them in clay jars. You didn't wanna have milk and meat in the same meal, because the jars that may have previously kept milk, would store meat. That milk would easily go bad if left in the jar, but even removing the milk from the jar, you can't completely clean those clay jars like that. What with all the little pores in them. Fact of the matter is, if you kept meat with the same jars as you kept milk, the milk in those pores would go bad, and spoil the meat, and you'd get sick. You shouldn't have milk and meat in the same meal, because you could get sick. Now instead of trying to explain all of that (I even had some trouble wording it right) they thought it simpler to just say that it went against God's will, and BOOM! Now even though I can eat steak and milk togeather every day now, most Jews still don't because they were taught that God didn't want you to.. How dumb is that?
Scaring people with Religion. Alot of people are either stupid, vulnerable, or just gullible. Doesn't matter which of the three, alot of people fall victim to claims like "You're going to spent eternity in pain if you don't practice what we believe in!" and so on and so forth. That's just... Well, I'll get back to that later... I'd like to talk a little bit about what I think.
I guess you can call me an atheist. I don't believe in God. Or at least God in the form that everyone else seems to view him. I don't believe there's some supreme being that created all of us and is up there wasting his/her/its time watching us. The idea just seems absurd to me. There's no proof to back up such a thing, and it just baffles me how some people can believe so strongly in something when there's no proof of it's existance. I dunno. Personally, I'll believe in God when I see some evidance (edivance that isn't some sociopath claiming they see God.) Some people say that before you can see God, you have to believe. Well, that's obvious. Anyone can think or see anything if they believe hard enough. If I seriously believed that Batman existed, believed with all my heart that he roamed the night fighting crime, it wouldn't be all too surprising if one night I thought I saw him and truly believed that it was him, and that it must prove Batman is real. The claim that you have to believe to see God isn't evidence. If anything, it's a trick to make you convert to their religion, so that you might hope to see God some day.
Anyways, back on track. I don't believe in God. Or like I said, I at least don't believe in some supreme being that created us and is watching over us and doing this and that. I'd like to believe that there's something after life. I'd like to believe in Heaven and Hell, I think that good people deserve a break, and bad people deserve punishment. But without God or Satan, I guess those places would have no real meaning. But to clear some things up, I don't totally dismiss God. For all I know, I can be wrong, and God can be up there. I can't disprove God anymore than I can prove he/she/it exists. But unlike what most people do, I'm not gonna play it safe and assume God exists, I'm gonna wait til I see some evidance. I think that people who blindly follow religion cause alot of problems. Which leads me into my next point...
Though I don't believe in any of these crazy religions out there, I respect other people's rights to believe in what they want. I'm an atheist, but a great deal of my friends are of other religions. Most are Christians, but some are Jews, and a couple are even Satanists. And that doesn't bother me, and my religious views don't bother them, and I think that's how it should be. But that's not how it is, most of the time. Some people out there get too caught up in this religion stuff, and it causes them to go blind. They become ignorant, their eyes closed to anything else. They think they're right, and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong. This is the kinda stuff that really makes me think the world would be a better place without religion. I've been treated pretty crappy by people out in the world, because I don't believe in their God. It's not just me though. People who become too obsessed with this stuff begin to forget their own teachings. They forget to treat people with kindness, and to look out for each other, and instead, look down on people who don't share their views, and either treat them badly, or try and force them to think their way.
Some examples of this kinda stuff... When talking religion with people, I've been told I'm going to hell. I'd say that's nothing more than a rude scare tactic. If there was a God up there who created me, he gave me free will, he gave me the ability to think the way I want to, and believe what I want to. Why would he condemn me for excercising that free will? As a test? That's some pretty sadistic stuff there. I dunno if I wanna live in a Kingdom with a God as a ruler who gives us free will then puts people through the hell that is life, just as part of a game to see if we're worthy to hang out in his hood.
Another example. I've had people, when they try to preach their religion to me, and I tell them my views, instead of accepting me for who I am and what I believe, tell me that I was wrong, and keep trying to "open my eyes." It's a much less rude approach than telling me I'll go to hell, but it's still essentially "I'm right and you're wrong."
Another such example. When I tell people I'm an atheist, they say something like "Oh. Well don't worry, you'll be in my prayers." That sounds like a rather nice thing to say, but a reaction like that pretty much implies that they think something's wrong with me, and they need to pray for me, because I don't think the same way they do. Though I guess they think they're doing me a favor, so it's not so bad, but that reaction still gets on my nerves.
Most religions preach treating people kindly, and pretty much being a good person. The way I see it, it doesn't matter what you believe. If any of these religions is right, and there's a God up there watching us, I don't think it matters what we believed in. If God is all that everyone makes him out to be, he judges people based on their actions, not on whether they thought he was real or not.
Most religions aren't that bad about that kinda stuff though. It's mostly the widely accepted cults that got the crazy people who give religion a bad name though, like the Mormons, the Moonies, and the Scientologists (sorry to anyone that might get offended by that, but I know a f**king cult when I see one). These religions that try to govern your life based on completely absurd things. Things completely absurd by the standards of religion (that's pretty f**king crazy in my book), these religions, are the ones that give people the wrong idea about this kinda stuff (note I'm not saying that Mormons, Scientologists, or Moonies are the cause of this, but rather, all religions like them). Religions teach people things that the normal person would stare bewildered at as fact, and govern every aspect of your life, these religions are what form the really crazy people. If you let ANYTHING control your life, it's going to make you a little crazy. Religion is no exception.
But I'm a good person. I accept people for who they are, not for what they believe. I got alot of mormon friends, and a friend that's one of them Moonies. I think their religions are crazy, but I'm not gonna tell them they're wrong or that they shouldn't believe in it. I wouldn't do that with any religion (unless it could hurt them in some way, in which case I'd try and snap them out of it). Unlike alot of unaccepting, ignorant people nowdays, I respect other people's rights to think the way they want. And I really think everyone should be that way.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't think Religion is a bad thing. Alot teach good moral values, though I do think that the world could do just fine without religion. I personally don't believe in God, or any of this other stuff out there, but I'm more than willing to accept someone regardless of what they believe in. And hey, if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. If there is a God, I'd be happy to see him/her/it.
The world has gotten too attached to their religious beliefs, and as a result, there's a great deal of ignorance nowdays. I think if people were more accepting of the beliefs of others, and maybe even a little more open minded, we'd all get along better. In the long run, it could only do us good. So go out there, and if someone says they don't believe in the same thing as you, instead of thinking "GASP! Heathen!", say "Hm. That's interesting. Personally, I <blahblahblahnotpreaching>, but who knows?"
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Post by viruszero on Feb 19, 2008 11:52:18 GMT -5
At 7:30 am if a bible pusher shows up at my door... "Excuse me" As I restrain my dog... Followed by: "My dog's viscious, he eats government agents, salesmen and bible pushers, now what was it you'd like to talk about?"
But seriously now, you don't need religion to teach how to be a good person. The effect of saying if you do X,Y,Z... then God will condemn you isn't going to deter anyone from doing anything. Anyone who is going to commit a crime will do it regardless of whether there is a God or not.
And Nightmare, your argument is exquisite, I wholeheartedly agree with it. And that when they try to convert you, they are being far more rude than they should be. Isn't one of religions missions to teach acceptance and love? it's not very accepting if I can't use my own freewill... So aren't they violating their own rules then?
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Post by Captain SpExtacular on Feb 19, 2008 20:40:19 GMT -5
This may do a bit to controversial, so Admins can close it if u don't like this topic. I think religion was just made up by some guys who thought they could help the world by putting the "fear of god" into people and use it make them be good. Although, now because of it, we have wars, racism, torture and killing. I dont like to believe in lies and false deities, but it seems to have left me without morals, not knowing what values to believe in, and I dont care about the world and I hate the world. Some would call this "goth". Some believe it isnt real, but say it helps them, I guess thats ok if u need it to give u help and you through hard times, but it's not for me. I just can't trust a lie. your opinions, I know a lot of you believe in religion, so debate...don't get out of control...respect beliefs/opinions. Goth died in the 90's my friend. But if you wanna be goth, please tell me you listen to gothic music (ie: Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Joy Division, The Cure). Basically I agree with your take on Religion. But as I've said before I'm a Nihilist. Therefor I really don't believe or like much of anything. But I do take a lot of my values and morals from Norse Mythology, alot like Swisgar and Toki from Metalocolypse. I like all the manliness and how awesome and brutal all the stories are that they use to teach morals. They teach a lot of courage and standing up no matter what happens to continue fighting. It's pretty ballsy stuff and I like that. Holy crap Nightmare...I'm gonna have to read all that for the next hour or so. I'll respond to what ever it is you said in a bit or so. What ever it is though I suppose I'll agree to it totally if not to some extent.....Actually I read it a lot faster than i expected, and i do agree XD.
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Post by Professor Fann on Feb 19, 2008 23:45:56 GMT -5
It was pretty easy to chow down Nightmare's words. Like breakfast.
I'm pretty much in favour for his second last paragraph as that shows that Nightmare is very open and flexible. It makes me wish that everyone around here is just like him.
For a technical record, Catholicism is a branch of Christianity ever since the Protestants were recognized as a group as well. The only thing, I think, that makes Catholicism stand out is because it has the traditional root power base of the Vatican and the Pope.
Hopefully one day all Christians shall be united by a thought far superior as opposed to the Vatican.
And someone said that the only religion he believes should be around is Buddhism. Why is that? I'm curious.
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Post by Nightmare on Feb 20, 2008 3:22:45 GMT -5
Well, the whole reason Christianity branched off into so many other little religions is because they were all one. The Catholics were too strict, and wanted money, so the religion split, and has continued to split into other similar religions, some crazier than others (Mormons being one of the crazier ones.)
So I don't think they'll be merging again anytime soon. The best solution to the issue of Religion is to either drop all religion altogeather, or to just be accepting of our fellow man, no matter what religious beliefs they hold.
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Post by viruszero on Feb 20, 2008 10:49:16 GMT -5
Accepting fellow man is easy to say... but VERY hard to actually do. It's hard to accept someone's beliefs when they are an extremist believeing that they can do whatever they want either: to convert you or if you refuse, to kill you... (Qu'ran extremists.) Or the local church who decides to visit you all the time trying to convert you... When they get too pushy it's really hard to say even to yourself: "It's ok, they're fellow man, I have to accept them and their views no matter who they are and what their views are..." Especially when they're trying to tell you your wrong and won't take the hint that your not interested.
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Post by Paranoid on Feb 20, 2008 22:14:22 GMT -5
I don't realy care if people pray at home or whatever, but it gets anyone when they're talking about something and their like " blah blah something something because of god blah blah"
It just finds ways of getting in your life. I was really shocked when we had a christmas concert we had to go to at school and they sang songs about god and stuff. this may seem ok, but it's a public school, for all religions. I go there to get away from the catholic schools, and they still shove it down my throat. Someone was even writing something about jesus on the desk I sat at.
I really can't stand the way people can't just keep their religion to themselves
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Post by Professor Fann on Feb 20, 2008 22:39:44 GMT -5
It's all in the mindsets of people.
If there is anyone who knows the secrets of life, I propose we all go and listen to him or her?
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Post by Paranoid on Feb 21, 2008 18:42:13 GMT -5
That's exactly the problem. Someone thinks they know the truth about some deity rather and we are all supposed to listen to them. I propose they keep that to themselves and let us believe there is no god
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Post by Captain SpExtacular on Feb 22, 2008 0:45:02 GMT -5
Oh snap, you got me. I'm god. Nah just kidding, however I could be a messiah! I have the answers to all your questions so feel free to ask and follow the monkey riding the moose's back!
Hey this might be fun...
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Post by Nightmare on Feb 22, 2008 0:55:20 GMT -5
Paranoid, people shouldn't keep their religion to themselves. I dunno how it in in Canada or any other place in the world, but in America (the greatest nation on the planet) we believe in freedom of Religion. It's a constitutional right that allows anyone to believe in any religion they want and practice it. There's nothing wrong with talking about your Religion or practicing it. The only time I'm against people babbling about their Religion is when they're preaching (i.e, forcing their views on you or trying to convert you)
And I thought your complaints about the Christmas concert was asanine, but again, it'd be different in America.
But anyways, people have a right to Freedom of Religion. They're allowed to believe whatever they want and practice their religion. It's a shame that alot of the stupider, wussier Democrats out there interpret the right as Freedom from Religion, and think that under the constitution that they get to be intolerant and complain about people or business expressing any religious views (which is bullshit). People are free to choose what they believe and practice it. If you don't agree with someones beliefs, and they're not trying to convert you, but rather just practicing their religion, you have absolutely no reason to complain.
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Post by Paranoid on Feb 22, 2008 7:51:16 GMT -5
By all mean, they can have whatever religion they want, and practice whatever they like. It'd just rather it was a bit more private and not something we should have to hear about
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