The story of (not so true) stuff

[Nicktendonick]

Hello people! I couldn't find the controversial thread, so I posted it here. I hope it's ok with the higher ups.

So, anyway, let's begin.


It's been uncovered that this video..."The story of stuff"... has been shown in schools for a couple of years now. The link here is below.



It would be fine, except for one major problem. To sum it's up, it's anti-capitalism indoctrination for kids being shown in public schools.

For example, the video says that we only have less then 4% of our forests left, we spend 50% of our budget on military/defense, we've used up 1/3 of our planets resources, and that we exploit third world countries (aka, trashing the planet) by as the lady on the video says
"what this looks like is that we cut down trees, we blow up mountains for the metals inside, we use up all the water and wipe out all the animals"

(this four part response shows the mistruths with this video )

Anyway. Like I said, this video is being shown in public schools. My point here, well, has anyone in schools remember seeing this video?

[Sonic]

Wow, that's a coincidence...I just saw this for the first time yesterday...and I haven't been in school for some time now. Sure, it might be anti-captialistic, but we have a constitution that allows people to freely voice their opinions. And I assume that kids who watch this are smart enough to not instantly be swayed and be like "Oh, I live my life by this video now." I saw this video, and I agreed with some of it. Some of it blew my mind. Some of it not so much.

Point is, there's nothing wrong with freedom of speech. Videos like this, controversial though they may be, get people curious and get them to find facts, whether to disprove it or to support it. So in the end, everyone ends up learning. To me, the pursuit and acquisition of knowledge is what matters more than anything.

And with that, I'm off to bed. =D

[Nightmare]

The people who made this video should be shot.

Just cause you have the freedom to tell an extremely stupid lie, doesn't mean you should.


I'm too tired/angry right now to go over everything in the video and explain why it's retarded, but it is. Trust me.

[Tony]

I'm gonna agree with Nightmare on this. They are free to say all this stuff, but that doesn't mean they should. Especially when you take into account that most of this stuff is just plain wrong and they're trying to pass it off as fact.

[Sonic]

I'm sure that when they made the video, they weren't saying "Yeah, we're totally gonna pass this lie off to millions of viewers." They didn't make this with the intention of lying. Maybe not all the facts are well revised, but that doesn't mean all this is an outright lie and you should blindfold yourself to certain truths. I'm not gonna bother trying to convince anyone here, I'm just putting that fact out there. I mean, why bother when certain idiots still don't even want to accept global warming? XD

And I looked up a few of the things she said, and they aren't false. Most pillows today are indeed dipped in bromide, which is a neurotoxin. Which I find f*cked up, btw.

[Nightmare]

I'm sure the video WAS made with the intention of lying, though. That's how these people recruit others into their messed up ranks. They bend and twist the truth until it's unrecognizable, they outright lie to people.

The only things said in that video that weren't bald faced lies or blatant misrepresentations of the information, were irrelevant and blown out of proportion. Such as your pillow fear. Lots of things can be deadly. It all depends on how much of it you get.

Think of it like Tylenol. You take a couple pills, it makes you feel better. You eat a whole bottle, you drop dead. Bromine, in lethal doses, is lethal, yes. When it's not in lethal doses (such as what's in your pillows) it acts as a fire retardant (ergo, your head doesn't catch fire.)

This video and everything in it is flat out bullsh!t. It's all lies, slander, and speaking of good things in a way to make morons think they're bad. I think the whole country would be better off if they blindfolded themselves to the supposed "truths" of this video. And it's an outrage that it's being shown in schools.


P.S: Global Warming is also bullsh!t.

[Sonic]

How is global warning bullsh*t?! It's so obvious that our planet is heating up, ocean levels have risen, and to what other factors other than a hotter planet can you come up with that are responsible for WHOLE icecaps melting? Icecaps. As in, the ice caps in the North Pole and Antarctica. It's been scientifically DOCUMENTED. You can clearly see a huge portion of it has melted.

But that's not what we're talking about here. Okay, you want to put the bromide argument that way? Then why is it that only America uses so much BS toxics in their products? Why don't other continents (Europe, South America, etc) use that sh*t in their products?? Maybe the fact that they also have free healthcare ties into it somehow, but I'm definitely not getting into conspiracy theories here.

And Planned and Perceived Obsolescence? You're gonna tell me that's a lie too? That manufacturers don't purposely build their products cheaper and with lesser quality materials so that they'll break faster? It's a by the books procedure that most companies use to ensure that consumerism remains steady. Compare a car from 20 years ago and a car from today. Or a household product, whatever. I guarantee you WON'T be able to get 200,000 miles out of any modern car anymore. Perceived Obsolescence. The notion that we NEED the newest product, the latest upgrade, when in fact we don't, and it's just a ploy to keep us spending. These are fundamental values to a capitalistic society. You live in the USA, you should know this.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
www.investopedia.com/terms/p/planned_obsolescence.asp

There. Educate yourself.

Edit: I forgot to mention, you're saying it's outrageous to show it in schools? You sound like those uptight, bible thumping parents of the 90s who said Sex Ed shouldn't be taught because it's wrong and filthy. And look where we are now. It's taught in pretty much every school, unless it's some backwards hick school that lives under a rock and refuses to acknowledge that sex is a natural human experience.

My point is: Knowledge prevails over stupidity.

[Nightmare]

Knowledge apparently doesn't prevail over stupidity, as you're proving so prominently. XD

First off, since when do these supposed "toxics" only go into American products? Hell, a lot of crap in America isn't even made in America. And the notion that Health Care has anything to do with manufacturing pillows is asinine to say the least.

And I'll reiterate my point of WHO CARES that these supposed "toxics" are in anything. They're NOT deadly unless they're in a lethal dose, which the instances in which we encounter things like bromide are certainly not. Bromide is not an issue. It's not. The notion that it is, or it should be, is again, asinine.

And Planned and Perceived Obsolescence? Yeah, that exists. So what? Nothing lasts forever, and I don't think I need to tell you that by the time new technology reaches the market, it's already out of date. Planned Obsolescence I'm not too hot for, but Perceived Obsolescence if far from a problem. There's nothing wrong with making people want better technology. And if you've got any sense, you're not gonna waste money on it until your whatever-it-is-we're-talking-about breaks anyway. You're proving my point I said that the video tries to make irrelevant things look like some kind of bad issue, when it's really not.

And yeah, real mature "You sound like those uptight, bible thumping parents of the 90s who said Sex Ed shouldn't be taught because it's wrong and filthy." And your argument regarding that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. There's a big difference between the school teaching your kids something you think they should be taught by their parents, and the school showing your kids something that lies, misrepresents facts, misquotes information, and tries to instill fear of things that aren't a threat to them.

Sex Ed. is teaching your kids something that's controversial. This video is teaching your kids things that are not true. You can't compare the two at all.


PS: I do think that though some Sex Ed should be in schools, it's something that really should be taught by parents.

PPS: Global Warming is such bullsh!t that even the democrats acknowledge it. You must be behind the times or something. XD
They don't even call it Global Warming anymore, they call it "Global Climate Change" because the planet's temperature isn't rising. Or at least, isn't just rising. I'm pretty adamant that we're not facing "Global Warming" due to my foot of snow we got in April here. As for "Climate Change"? Yes, I acknowledge climate change. Climate change has been taking place since before mankind. I acknowledge it, but I also know that it has little if anything to do with the actions of humans, and don't think that there's anything we could do to change it anyway.




Global Warming and Sex Ed. aren't the issues though. You push that bullsh!t elsewhere.
We're here to discuss this monstrosity of a video that has no place being shown to anyone, let alone kids at school.

[Tony]

You know, Sonic... you should really also watch the Critique version (link in the first post). It helpfully points out all the mis-information and just down right lies.

[Sonic]

I saw the critque version. Who's to say the guy who made that isn't also just being a biased jackass? They're both presenting what appears to be hard evidence. They both make strong arguments. At the end of the day, does that really matter? I never said I agreed with everything she said. I said I agreed with most of it. And I DON'T think it's wrong for it to be shown in classrooms. Obviously if it's being shown in classrooms in the first place then it means that enough people thought it educational and that it provided a thought provoking message. Which is what schools are supposed to do. They're supposed to spur you to think. What the hell is wrong with thinking outside the box? You say I'm not keeping up with the times, but you're making yourself sound old fashioned and out of date with your argument. And you want to call me immature? How about "The people who made this should be shot?" Yeah, that's reasonable.

And you keep saying "they shouldn't be showing something that isn't true." YOU think it isn't true. YOU think it's stupid. There are many, if not more people who think it makes sense. That's always been your problem Nightmare, you swear your word is law, and that everyone thinks like you. It's unbecoming of you, man. It shows you lack scope. There are millions of people in this country, all with different opinions. It's what makes our country.

To get to the more minor topics, you misquoted my pillow argument. I never said it had anything to do with healthcare, I just used that as an offhand comment. And yes, I heard your Tylenol argument, but you also forget. Continuous exposure to a toxin for years is just as bad as being exposed to one large dose at once. It accumulates. How do you think asbesto poisonings occur? Not that I'm saying that this would occur from sleeping on a freaking pillow, I'm just stating that generally.

Last but not least, find me an article of a democrat saying "Global Climate Change" is bullsh*t. I'll find ten articles with detailed explanations as to why it exists. I've put in hours upon hours researching this. The one thing I'll grant you is yes, the earth's climate does change on it's own. But what I'm saying is that us humans are accelerating its degradation with our pollution. That's something no one can deny. But you can keep telling everyone "Listen to me, I'm right and that's that." Seems like it's been working for you so far. XD

[Tony]

Just have to point out a couple of problems with one of you're points, Sonic...

Sept 24, 2009 22:03:27 GMT -5 Sonic said:

And you keep saying "they shouldn't be showing something that isn't true." YOU think it isn't true. YOU think it's stupid. There are many, if not more people who think it makes sense.

There are also a lot of people that believe that god created the universe in six days (no offense to any Christians reading this). The thing is, just because you believe something is true doesn't mean it is.

Sept 24, 2009 22:03:27 GMT -5 Sonic said:

There are millions of people in this country, all with different opinions. It's what makes our country.

Everyone is allowed their own opinion, yes. But this isn't about opinion, this is a about facts. The two are very different.

[Nightmare]

Sorry Sonic, but you really are making yourself sound like a moron. XD

Let me do this one HZ style.

I saw the critque version. Who's to say the guy who made that isn't also just being a biased jackass?

Who's to say the people that made this video aren't?

They're both presenting what appears to be hard evidence. They both make strong arguments. At the end of the day, does that really matter?

Except the stuff in the original video is obviously retarded, if you know anything about anything that's discussed in said video. And yes, it does matter.

I never said I agreed with everything she said. I said I agreed with most of it.

Then you're only mostly wrong. Sorry.

And I DON'T think it's wrong for it to be shown in classrooms. Obviously if it's being shown in classrooms in the first place then it means that enough people thought it educational and that it provided a thought provoking message.

Big difference between providing a thought provoking message and lying to children. And just because it's being shown in classrooms doesn't mean that it was well thought out. All kinds of stupid crap makes it into our schools.

Which is what schools are supposed to do. They're supposed to spur you to think. What the hell is wrong with thinking outside the box?

Schools aren't supposed to provide us with a thought provoking message. Schools are supposed to teach us the fundamentals we need to function in the world. Universities may be considered a place where people explore things to make them look at the world a different way, but elementary schools aren't meant for that purpose. And nothing's wrong with thinking outside the box, so long as your conclusions you come to aren't retarded.

You say I'm not keeping up with the times, but you're making yourself sound old fashioned and out of date with your argument.

If being right is old fashioned, then call me old fashioned.

And you want to call me immature? How about "The people who made this should be shot?" Yeah, that's reasonable.

Not the same thing. I'm having an outraged reaction to an atrocious video. You're coming at me with a stupid comparison that holds no merit to the debate. The difference is, I was making a general, light hearted (though outraged comment) whereas you were attempting to fling mud while directly engaged in a debate with another person.

And you keep saying "they shouldn't be showing something that isn't true." YOU think it isn't true. YOU think it's stupid.

No, I don't think it isn't true. I know it isn't true. And anything that's supposed to be educational and isn't true is stupid. You're making it out to be a matter of opinion, but it's a matter of fact.

There are many, if not more people who think it makes sense.

The general outrage over the video seems to suggest otherwise.

That's always been your problem Nightmare, you swear your word is law, and that everyone thinks like you. It's unbecoming of you, man. It shows you lack scope.

Have you never had a serious discussion with me before? Anyone can tell you that when I'm being serious, I'm plenty reasonable. I don't insist my word as law unless we're screwing around and I don't care to argue. But then again, the liberal thing to do is to ironically use Purple Logic, and ignore sarcasm and make a big stink over things that any person with half an ounce of sense can see is a joke, right?

There are millions of people in this country, all with different opinions. It's what makes our country.

As Tony said, this argument isn't about opinions. It's about facts. I've observed in previous arguments with me and with other people even you seem to have trouble differentiating the two, so I'll help you out here.

Fact
-noun
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true

Opinion
-noun
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Hope that cleared things up.

To get to the more minor topics, you misquoted my pillow argument. I never said it had anything to do with healthcare, I just used that as an offhand comment.

Well seeing as though you acknowledge that your comment made no sense and had no business being in the argument to begin with, I don't feel so bad for misunderstanding it.

And yes, I heard your Tylenol argument, but you also forget. Continuous exposure to a toxin for years is just as bad as being exposed to one large dose at once. It accumulates. How do you think asbesto poisonings occur?

Which is irrelevant when you'll never be exposed to enough to amount to a lethal dose. This is proven due to people putting their faces into these big bad chemicals for 8 hours a night for an entire lifetime and not getting poisoned.

Not that I'm saying that this would occur from sleeping on a freaking pillow, I'm just stating that generally.

Which makes your argument irrelevant. Glad we could agree on something.

Last but not least, find me an article of a democrat saying "Global Climate Change" is bullsh*t.

I said they know "Global Warming" is bullsh!t. I also proceeded to say they now call it "Global Climate Change" because they changed their tune so as to not sound quite as wrong. Might I suggest rereading what I said?

I'll find ten articles with detailed explanations as to why it exists. I've put in hours upon hours researching this.

Congrats. So have I, and I can do the same (stating the opposite, of course.) It doesn't take much to find 10 articles backing up what you said when you have the entirety of the internet at your disposal.

The one thing I'll grant you is yes, the earth's climate does change on it's own.

So you're not completely retarded. Good to know.

But what I'm saying is that us humans are accelerating its degradation with our pollution. That's something no one can deny.

I can and will deny that. The only impact we've had on the atmosphere really is thinning it a tad, which allows ultraviolet light from the sun to reach us easier, which can cause skin cancer if you're not careful. Then again, anything can cause cancer nowdays, depending on what you're reading.

But you can keep telling everyone "Listen to me, I'm right and that's that." Seems like it's been working for you so far. XD

Refer to my previous statement regarding the liberal rape of sarcasm. Also, that was a weak burn.





I'll save other readers some time and just say "pwnt" for them and get it out of the way.

Pwnt.

[Sonic]

Lawl. Say "pwnt" all you want, dude. I know what I think. You have your opinion. I have mine. Shame I don't have Alter backing me up this time, seems I'm outnumbered. You're pretty much reiterating all the stuff you said previously, so I really can't see why you'd say "Pwnt."

And the fact that the Senate is being completely controlled by democrats suggests that over half of this contry would side with me. Shame none of them registered with ZV. So delude yourself all you want. And I never once called you retarded, did I? You didn't need to stoop that low...

[Tony]

Sonic... stop mentioning opinions, they have nothing to do with the topic at hand... it's about facts. In case you just skimmed through Nightmare's post and missed it.

Sept 24, 2009 23:25:18 GMT -5 Nightmare said:

Fact
-noun
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true

Opinion
-noun
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Hope that cleared things up.

[Nightmare]

Lawl. Say "pwnt" all you want, dude. I know what I think. You have your opinion. I have mine.

Again with opinions. Did you miss the definitions?

Shame I don't have Alter backing me up this time, seems I'm outnumbered.

That's what happens when you're wrong. A majority of the people disagree with you.

You're pretty much reiterating all the stuff you said previously, so I really can't see why you'd say "Pwnt."

I think everything you've said until this line suggests otherwise.

And the fact that the Senate is being completely controlled by democrats suggests that over half of this contry would side with me.

It's naive to assume just because someone is a democrat that they'll agree with another democrat. Tony, the guy who supposedly is helping me outnumber you is a democrat I've clashed with countless times. Not yo mention the elections for the Senate were three years ago, and current polls and the actions of the democrat party suggest that the democrats are in serious danger of losing their stranglehold on the senate in the upcoming election.

Shame none of them registered with ZV.

I think I'm only one of maybe three openly republican members on the forum. Out of like 150 members.

And I never once called you retarded, did I? You didn't need to stoop that low...

Maybe I shouldn't have been so rough with you. Not a lot of people can take the heat, especially when they're in the kitchen with me (lawl, double entendre.) Sorry, no hard feelings, I just don't handle stupid arguments well.

That wasn't intended to be as mean as it sounds. XD